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[cekoni]

I guess what Cekoni meant is that under current judging situations, no body can beat Chan. Under certain circumstances to let plushy to compete while he cannot perform 100% is not worthy. If people establish the image of Chan is invicible to anybody ... it is difficult to reverse the situation...

Yes, thanks for "translation" of my post! ... if my English is so bad?

With the current attitude of judges towards Chan, nobody can beat him!

While Mishin (Piseev, anyone...) do not succeed to change something with criticism, not must be allowed to Chan wins Plushy in that way. In addition, the "tactical" is wrong that people to get used that Plushy can be defeated (with current "pro-chan" judging) - if it becomes "normal", it will remain forever

I think it's some of Mishin's considerations. In any case, we will see what will happening in future...

Defeat Chan with "criticism"????? Next year the Worlds are in CHANADA!!!!!! The chances that someone beats Chan are 0,000000000001%. Plushy has to defeat Chan with a strong program, not Mishin or Piseev. That's what we need, more politics and everybody will scream that Chan has been robbed, if he ever loses to Plushy!!!! That's what you want, the 2002 scandal reloaded????? Nobody can judge in advance if Chan is beatable or not.

Sorry, but you dont understand me AT ALL! ... and I do not agree with any conclusion of you!

Do you think that the present system in the world figure skating is not made without "political work" by the Canada/USA within the ISU?

---------------------

P.S.... So, Chan's skating on GPF 2011 was better than Plushy's best?

http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat//phsmto.htm
Progression of Highest Score
Men Total Score
Name Nat. Event Date SP FS Total
1 Patrick CHAN CAN World Championships 2011 28.04.2011 93.02 187.96 280.98
2 Daisuke TAKAHASHI JPN Four Continents Championships 2008 15.02.2008 88.57 175.84 264.41
--- Patrick Chan - GPF 2011, 10.12.2011 - 86.63 173.67 - 260.30
3 Evgeni PLUSHENKO RUS XX Olympic Winter Games 2006 16.02.2006 90.66 167.67 258.33
4 Evgeni PLUSHENKO RUS ISU Grand Prix Final 2005 18.12.2004 84.35 167.40 251.75
5 Evgeni PLUSHENKO RUS Trophee Lalique 2003 15.11.2003 75.35 158.94 234.29
6 Evgeni PLUSHENKO RUS MasterCard Skate Canada Int. 2003 01.11.2003 81.25 152.40 233.65
....

http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/o100mto.htm
Score over 150
Men Total Score
Name Nat. Event Date SP FS Total
1 Patrick CHAN CAN World Championships 2011 01.05.2011 93.02 187.96 280.98
2 Daisuke TAKAHASHI JPN Four Continents Championships 2008 17.02.2008 88.57 175.84 264.41
--- Patrick Chan - GPF 2011, 10.12.2011 - 86.63 173.67 - 260.30
3 Patrick CHAN CAN ISU GP Final 2010/2011 12.12.2010 85.59 174.16 259.75
3 Daisuke TAKAHASHI JPN ISU GP NHK Trophy 2011 13.11.2011 90.43 169.32 259.75
4 Takahiko KOZUKA JPN World Championships 2011 01.05.2011 77.62 180.79 258.41
5 Evgeni PLUSHENKO RUS XX Olympic Winter Games 2006 26.02.2006 90.66 167.67 258.33
6 Daisuke TAKAHASHI JPN World Championships 2010 28.03.2010 89.30 168.40 257.70
7 Evan LYSACEK USA XXI Olympic Winter Games 2010 28.02.2010 90.30 167.37 257.67
8 Evgeni PLUSHENKO RUS XXI Olympic Winter Games 2010 28.02.2010 90.85 165.51 256.36
9 Evgeni PLUSHENKO RUS European Championships 2010 24.01.2010 91.30 164.09 255.39
....

[cekoni]

.... I saw some instruction videos for judges on how to give PCS scores, and nearly all the "positive" examples were programs choreographed by Nichols. They're setting up this one style above all others. And yes, Chan has great skating skills (when he doesn't lose control of it) and lots of transitions, but why should he get automatically higher PE and IN scores as well? I've seen people argue, "but he has the best skating skills, and that's the most important". But then why are there 5 separate categories in PCS then? Why not just say, "skating skills are worth a maximum of 50 points" and be done with it? And even within skating skills, there are different styles. In my opinion, Plushy has great skating skills, but it is more of a style that emphasizes ease, lightness and naturalness instead of a lot of very deep edges and twists-and-turns (the question of speed aside). Why should one style be valued above the other? Who gets to dictate that?

... Basically they are defining the standards as "good program = Nichols", and "good skating = Chan", and when that happens, then indeed Chan is unbeatable no matter how well or badly he or others do. The whole thing becomes a farce: and what is the point of even having a competition, then? ...

THIS!

[caseddy]

In one way I think it is OK because quads are worth more and Chan does two quads but in another I think the Chan scores are overdone because his PCS is so inflated and absurd.

[simona]

... Basically they are defining the standards as "good program = Nichols",
& "good skating = Chan", & when that happens, then indeed Chan is un -
beatable no matter how well or badly he or others do. The whole thing
becomes a farce: & what's the point of even having a competition, then? ...

THIS!

WELCOME 2 THE "CREEPY HORROR CHAN/NICHOL PICTURE SHOW!"



SCANDALOUS!! SUCH COURAGE 2 PUT CHAN'S FS ABOVE DAI'S!!

[clairdelalune]

I guess what Cekoni meant is that under current judging situations, no body can beat Chan. Under certain circumstances to let plushy to compete while he cannot perform 100% is not worthy. If people establish the image of Chan is invicible to anybody (god helps us!!! He is really good at skating but he can seldom perform a clean program during a whole season. I think he is really unique since nobody can rule the FS with so many un-cleaned programs, that is just WRONG!!!!!), it is difficult to reverse the situation. ?

Theoretically he is not invincible, he makes a lot of errors, practically, yes he is, because his competitiors do mistakes too.

Actually Chan is robbing our feelings by getting into the first place (ok maybe this time he deserves it since nobody really provided a clean program, but season best?) with could-he-ever-skate-clean program, personally I really curious to know if Plushy can perform a clean good program against Chan's crapy performance, what would be the result.

If Plushy is able to get the levels and GOE that Chan gets, with a clean program he could beat him.

Of course we'd like to see a good program from Plushy, and I think it is necessary if her were to try to win, but who gets to control what is or isn't a "good" program? More generally, who gets to decide what is or isn't to be valued in skating? I saw some instruction videos for judges on how to give PCS scores, and nearly all the "positive" examples were programs choreographed by Nichols. They're setting up this one style above all others. And yes, Chan has great skating skills (when he doesn't lose control of it) and lots of transitions, but why should he get automatically higher PE and IN scores as well? I've seen people argue, "but he has the best skating skills, and that's the most important". But then why are there 5 separate categories in PCS then? Why not just say, "skating skills are worth a maximum of 50 points" and be done with it? And even within skating skills, there are different styles. In my opinion, Plushy has great skating skills, but it is more of a style that emphasizes ease, lightness and naturalness instead of a lot of very deep edges and twists-and-turns (the question of speed aside). Why should one style be valued above the other? Who gets to dictate that?

Canadians and Lori know how to work the system. If the edges have to be deep, show them deep edges., etc.

As for the 2002 scandal, personally I don't think that is the same. In that situation, there were some evidence of alleged underhanded dealings (though as I understood it, the facts were never completely clear). I sure do hope desperately that it doesn't get to a point where people get used to it enough to actually think Chan (or any skater, for that matter, even Plushy) is supposed to always win somehow because he is "just better", or that if anyone happens to beat him then it automatically means he must be robbed. Because when that happens, figure skating indeed would have stopped being a sport.

When it comes to the question of this season's Worlds, I don't know, frankly that will depend on a lot of factors. Let's just try to take it one competition at a time, perhaps?

I just don't wanna hear that Chan was wuzrobbed, I will quit watching FS for good.

[clairdelalune]

Do you think that the present system in the world figure skating is not made without "political work" by the Canada/USA within the ISU?

Americans didn't like the system, just ask Dick Button.

---------------------

P.S.... So, Chan's skating on GPF 2011 was better than Plushy's best? ....

in some areas yes, in other areas no. Anyway we can't compare objectively scores from the presetnt with scores from the past.

[let`s talk]

personally I really curious to know if Plushy can perform a clean good program against Chan's crapy performance, what would be the result.

Good question. But I am afraid the answer is right here- in your own question. Chan's competitor must have a super authority and be known for not being quiet if things go unfair. Right now I don't see who it could be, except Plush. Also Chanboni never won in Russia with falls. I am afraid we have to wait till Sochi. Untill then- men's filed will be sucked up all the possible ways. I just feel sorry for Takahashi, Hanyu, Javi and all other skaters who have to deal with the corruption of judges when Chan is involved.

[whitebamboo]

personally I really curious to know if Plushy can perform a clean good program against Chan's crapy performance, what would be the result.

Good question. But I am afraid the answer is right here- in your own question. Chan's competitor must have a super authority and be known for not being quiet if things go unfair. Right now I don't see who it could be, except Plush. Also Chanboni never won in Russia with falls. I am afraid we have to wait till Sochi. Untill then- men's filed will be sucked up all the possible ways. I just feel sorry for Takahashi, Hanyu, Javi and all other skaters who have to deal with the corruption of judges when Chan is involved.

If I remember correctly, at last year's COR Chan would have won if he hadn't made a mathematical error and jumped an extra combination, and there wasn't any way the judges could ignore that. And that was with 1 fall in the SP and 3 falls in the LP. So I don't know...We'll have to see. To be honest I still doubt this state of things can go on forever.

[clairdelalune]

personally I really curious to know if Plushy can perform a clean good program against Chan's crapy performance, what would be the result.

Good question. But I am afraid the answer is right here- in your own question. Chan's competitor must have a super authority and be known for not being quiet if things go unfair. Right now I don't see who it could be, except Plush. Also Chanboni never won in Russia with falls. I am afraid we have to wait till Sochi. Untill then- men's filed will be sucked up all the possible ways. I just feel sorry for Takahashi, Hanyu, Javi and all other skaters who have to deal with the corruption of judges when Chan is involved.

If I remember correctly, at last year's COR Chan would have won if he hadn't made a mathematical error and jumped an extra combination, and there wasn't any way the judges could ignore that. And that was with 1 fall in the SP and 3 falls in the LP. So I don't know...We'll have to see. To be honest I still doubt this state of things can go on forever.

Evgeni was unbeatable until he retired in 2006, probably the the same thing will happen with Chan. He is a dominant skater right now, only someone with great authority, as let's talk said and very strong as a skater could stop him.

[whitebamboo]

If I remember correctly, at last year's COR Chan would have won if he hadn't made a mathematical error and jumped an extra combination, and there wasn't any way the judges could ignore that. And that was with 1 fall in the SP and 3 falls in the LP. So I don't know...We'll have to see. To be honest I still doubt this state of things can go on forever.

Evgeni was unbeatable until he retired in 2006, probably the the same thing will happen with Chan. He is a dominant skater right now, only someone with great authority, as let's talk said and very strong as a skater could stop him.

But Evgeni didn't make an average of 1-2 mistakes per SP and 2-3 mistakes per LP....And even though he had plenty of haters even then, I don't recall any of his wins were controversial as some of Chan's were.

However, it is true that clean skates are a lot rarer with other skaters, too, this season. But even nowadays, I do think that any other skater who makes as many mistakes as Chan does would be seen as a "headcase".